OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

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OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:40 pm

Hi guys

I finished restauring my LML NV from 1991.I have bought white wall tyres,changed some parts and I have these problems left now:

There is oil leak on my rear tyre (it ruined my rear white wall tyre).On some other forums I have posted pics,so I will post them here too so that you can see and help me.On modernvespa forum,people said that probably is worn out"rear hub oil seal".I'm a newbie and not from UK,so I apologize for my English.and I don't know all the names of the parts and what they mean.
I'm planing to order 3 oil seals that are inside engine.but my question is this:
1. WHAT SIZE ARE THOSE OIL SEALS,SINCE I SAW ON SCOOTERCENTER WEBSITE THERE ARE DIFFERENT SIZES FOR DIFFERENT VESPA'S? WHICH OIL SEALS WILL FIT MY LML NV 150cc FROM 1991 (kicks start only) and I think that it is the first model not SPL??????
Here is the link so tell me if you can which ones fit my LML?
http://www.scooter-center.com/scoweb/pa ... vespa%20px
Are they same size as VESPA PX or different?

I don't know how to upload pictures here so I hope you won't mind if I put the link from modernvespa forum,so that you can see the pics of where oil is leaking: http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic90771

2. And one more thing.......I have problems starting my LML NV......I changed 2 new spakplugs,cleaned carburetor,cleaned fuel tank,resurfaced cylinder head......AND STILL IT NEEDS TOO MUCH KICKS TO START,like 10 or maybe more !!!!! WHAT CAN BE THE PROBLEM??

Thank you guys in advance and I hope you can help me,since the season for riding starts very soon :)
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby Tony » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:55 pm

If you take your rear wheel off and then the hub itself it will be quite evident if your seal has gone as some of that gunk Will be inside your hub......as for the starting problem I would check your ht cap is tight (turn it clockwise) then check your ht lead is tight at the coil (again turn the lead clockwise), after that check the blue crimp on the coil is also tight, if they are ok I would change your coil...........

As for the seal itself I would try and buy genuine Lml product rather than piaggio......
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:21 am

Thank you TONY for you reply.I'm sorry but I have no idea what are "ht cap","ht lead ","coil","blue crimp" ??? Sorry but I'm not English.If you can send me some links of these parts with pictures so that I can see what are they, it would be very helpful?
And about the seals,what dimensions are the ones that fit LML NV? There are oil seals on some websites,but there are mainly for PX and it doesn't say wher=ther they are for LML too.SO I need dimensions of all the 3 oil seals(or maybe I need just 1 to fix this problem).Did you check the pics from the other forum that I posted ?
I saw that there are dimension like this one "30x47x6mm "...27x47x6mm ......Oil seal 31x62,1x5,8/4,3mm - Metal,black (used for crankshaft drive side Vespa PX (since 1984), T5, Cosa) !!!!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHICH OF THESE SUITS MY LML NV??
And another problem is that I keep my LML at the entrance of the building that I live in,so I can't take apart the Vespa and leave it like that.And there are no shops here in MAcedonia where I can buy spare parts and then change them.So I need to know the exact sizes of oil seals so that I can order them from Germany or somewhere else,and when I receive them I will take apart the engine and put them right away...............lots of problems my friends i have !!! :cry:
And what is your opinion,is that only the rear hub oil seal or some other as well???
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby FROG » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:02 am

Dear Juno,
first of all your english is fantastic :D , now onto your problem.
From the first picture it looks like a leak from your cylinder base or head gasket and around the exhaust flange( maybe just needs tightening ) as this is usually a black slightly thicker oil made up of residue of burnt 2 stroke oil.
If your cylinder base or cylinder head gaskets are leaking, this can also make it difficult to start as there is a mild loss of compression so maybe re check the tightness of these nuts.
The pictures further down do suggest maybe a leaking rear brake hub seal but they do come in two dimensions , one with an internal diameter
of 27 mm and one 30mm , but I would bet it is a 30mm but you need to check the seal and read the numbers on it.
Someone on Modern Vespa also made the point about your clutch release arm and they are correct, I have never seen one like that before and it is possible that
the small o-ring inside the clutch arm is either leaking , missing or broken.
I would suggest going via SIP in Germany , for one their website is in multiple languages including english and their service and prices seem very reasonable.
Order a clutch arm o-ring, a clutch housing o-ring , rear hub oil seal ( buy both sizes as they are cheap ) and if you are going to open up the engine buy an engine bearing and seal kit, it is always good to have them spare anyway.
You can order either LML or Vespa PX 150 parts as they are very much identical .
I hope this helps and let us know how you go with the repairs.

FROG ( Sydney Australia with a huge Macedonian community :)
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:07 pm

Hi FROG

First of all,thank you for your reply.I found some of the things you mentioned to replace,but can you send me pics or explain what are these: "clutch housing o-ring", "engine bearing and seal kit" ? I think that I found the other parts you mentioned.
Well the problem is that I don't want to open the whole engine.I think that I might get remove only the rear tire and change that rear hub seal (because I think that is easy to replace), and I hope that there won't be no need to open the inside of the engine to replace those other seals.And as I mentioned before I can't dismantle my LML just to check what size is the rear hub seal,since I live in a building and I can't leave the Vespa outside like that.So that is why I'm asking the correct sizes of the seals and o-rings so when I order them I open the engine and put them right away.And I can't return the parts if they don't match,because I have to order them from another country and that is expensive to do from Macedonia.
And you mentioned the exhaust as possible place that oil lekas from.Well when I resurfaced cylinder head i tightened the exhaust,but it is still a little bit loose I think.It can not be tightened more.I did that all the way to the max,it can't be tightened any more.
Someone on Modern Vespa also made the point about your clutch release arm and they are correct, I have never seen one like that before and it is possible that

You are not the first one that says you have never seen before that kind of clutch release arm.I don't know why.Well my LML NV 150cc is from 1991.It was imported to Yugoslavia from India I guess when PIAGGIO and LML still had joined venture.So I guess that is the first version of LML NV.There are stamps of PIAGGIO and LML on the engine.That is why probably why I can't find some parts to match.The electrical wiring is different then on VESPA PX.I have no idea ........
From the first picture it looks like a leak from your cylinder base or head gasket and around the exhaust flange( maybe just needs tightening ) as this is usually a black slightly thicker oil made up of residue of burnt 2 stroke oil.

About this,I use ELF 2 stroke oil which is dark (blue/green)color,so that's why the oil that is leaking is dark and not because it is burned (I have no idea,just to mention the fact so that you better know).
I will check first if I can find these seals in Macedonia,if not I will try to get them from Greece or order them from Germany.I ordered my other parts from SCOOTER-CENTER from Germany.They are great,so check them out.

FROG ( Sydney Australia with a huge Macedonian community :)

I know that there are a lot of Macedonians.So say hello to them,from me :D
Thanks again Frog
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby Tony » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:06 pm

Juno - if you have a look on

www.lmlparts.co.uk

you will find exploded diagrams of every part of the scooter.......this will give you the idea of what you need and then order that part from a company that will deliver to you....as for your leaks...its one of the hardest parts to diagnose online.......the leak could be from the rear hub seal, cylinder, exhaust or just road spray and dirt mixed in with a bit of 2 stroke oil/fuel coming from the carb (carb spit) the petrol evapourates and leaves the oily residue behind, which acts as a glue to dirt, then add some road spray when you are out in the wet and it looks like a leak....

i would take one stage at a time and try and eliminate areas of concern....easiest one is hub seal...take your rear hub off and check...if thats ok then move onto next easiest....cylinder.....take cylinder head off and cjeck gasket is ok...then replace and re torque......process of elimination.....then check exhaust stub is tight and then check carb......clutch...etc.....obviously cleaning as you go as its easier to spot a leak on a clean engine....

I would also check that your casing nuts are nice n tight and that you are not losing any gear oil.....
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:40 pm

Thanks TONY

Can you confirm that the rear hub oil seal on my LML NV 150cc from 1991 is with the dimensions "30x47x6mm" or is it a different dimensions like 26mmX..... ? I need to know that before I dismantle the Vespa so that I can order the correct one .

Thanks again ;)
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby FROG » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:58 pm

30/47/6 is the correct seal that you require for the rear hub but as I mentioned earlier
there is also a 27/47/6 as this depends on the diameter of your rear shaft ( early ones were 27mm )
but because yours is a 1991 model it should be 30/47/6 but hard to confirm without removing rear hub and reading the number
on the seal itself and this is also why I said to order both if need be so when you take off the rear hub you will be able to complete
the job, they are very cheap anyway. You could also try your local bearing and seal supplier first as they may have this size in stock ?
Good luck

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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:29 pm

Thanks MATES ;) We will see what will I do with it.Hopefully, will fix the problem.
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:40 am

Guys

I have found a metal oil seal but with dimensions 30x47x7 mm.........it is not 30x47x6 mm. What do you think,will that fit or not ?It is only 1 mm bigger.
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:02 pm

Hi

I have found the right oil seal dimensions 30x47x6mm but I need the O-RINGS too.Here is the link for you to see which one I need to buy:

http://www.scooter-center.com/scoweb/pa ... egory2=CAT

I know the dimensions of the 2 o-rings.The smallest is 9,0x1,70mm (used for clutch arm lever) and the biggest one is 119x2,00mm (used for clutch cover). What about the third one,what is it for and what are the exact dimensions ????DO I need some more O-rings for the clutch thing and if so,what are those dimensions too?

And I forgot to ask you this: I have found here the largest O-RING but the dimensions are 115x2,00mm (instead of 119x2,00mm). Will that one fit or it is too small?

Thanks

juno106
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby FROG » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:04 pm

The other smaller o-ring is for the rear brake arm.

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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:23 pm

Thanks FROG

Do you know the exact dimensions of that O-ring? And to be honest I really don't know where does that one goes in :).I need the exact dimensions.Can you post here some link of that exact REAR BRAKE ARM O RING?
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Re: OIL LEAK on rear tyre and engine and starting problem!

Postby juno106 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:00 pm

Guys,I'm sorry for bothering but I'm a newbie and have no idea about Vespa.

I have found rear hub oil seal,2 o-rings biggest one 115x2mm and for clutch arm (whatever is that) dimensions 30x47x6mm.About the third o-ring, I don't know the right dimensions and what is it for.......but I have no clue which goes where.I have found something about the oil seal,but I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHOULD I PUT THOSE O-RINGS......Can someone guide me or even better if there are some PICTURES to guide me where should those O-rings fit !!!
I'm sorry but I'm not English and don't know what those engine terms mean (like HUB,ARM,CLUTCH......)
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